|starkwest: marvelousmavrel: silv3rdoe: tonys-bucky: starkwest...
||[Oct. 26th, 2016|12:25 pm]
Dear anon. Re: ‘Tony Stark is nothing without Pepper’.
In the words of the incomparable Jules Winnfield “allow me to retort ”.
Why do I ’hate Iron Man 3’?
There are too many reasons to mention. In a nutshell: The script/character improbability/continuity/destruction of the suits/the ridiculous ‘twist’/directorial style/the removal of the arc reactor.
“Pepper fixes him like she does everything in his life”
I received so many messages and comments on how Tony ‘dominates’ Pepper’s life. How she does ‘everything’ for him. How he doesn’t ‘appreciate’ her. That she has ‘no life of her own because of him’. Honestly, the woman is a grown-up. She’s apparently smart enough to helm a company that leads the world so I’m fairly sure that if she feels Tony is ruining her life she could make a clean break and leave the man. Instead, she decides. “Hey, this man that I’ve known for some many years now, this man that I am with daily, that I know full and well what kind of man he is going into this relationship? I’m honestly sick of his ‘distractions’ and his ‘machines’ and his not being there for me. I’m going to bitch and complain at him until he makes me his first priority. Even though he was explicitly clear that the suit and the mission are paramount in his life.” Fair enough, her emotions, her call. However, to take on this man, this man who is so very obviously complex and unique, a man who she knows has deep seated issues with trust and giving his love, and for very good reasons, and then to try and change him and make him feel there is something fundamentally wrong with him at a time when he is emotionally falling apart is wrong. Just wrong.
People hold these two up as a guiding light of relationships but all I see is toxicity. In the original Iron Man, they were cute and there was the start of a chemistry. Pepper resembled Pepper from the comics. In Iron Man 2 there isn’t even a shadow of the strong and capable woman Pepper is. She is shrill and manipulative. Her lines become throw away and barbed “Not everyone runs on batteries, Tony”? When Tony, the man whom she knows has a difficult time expressing himself intimately, is so obviously reaching out to her? It’s cold and difficult to watch. By IM3, Pepper is a caricature. I took a ration of shit over the post I made commenting that her walking out on him during his panic attack was wrong. A ton of shit. But I stand by it. I get that some people felt she felt unsafe and needed to remove herself from him. However, her man is in pain, he asks her, all but begs her not to leave, and I do understand that she was shaken, that she may have needed to put a room between them but to throw ”tinker with that” at him as she left? Cold beyond words.
Tony is a mess you say? He has issues? Let’s just examine those ‘issues’ shall we.
Anthony Stark is a genius. Seriously, the man is brilliant. And with that brilliance comes all it’s attendant issues. We’re not just talking ‘good grades’ smart here. He is the second smartest man in the world. Like off the chart brilliant. He doesn’t see the world as others do. He views, processes and follows through differently. Not because he’s a ’dick’ or ‘immature’, but because his brain is programmed that way. This man was taken from his home, from his admittedly small family, but family none the less and held prisoner for 3 months. During which he was given open heart surgery with no anesthetic. They physically tied him down and cut into him, broke apart his rib cage and rearrange his chest. All while he was awake. Then they tortured him. Yeah, he came out of that cave with issues all right. Yet this ‘immature man’ took that incident and built his way out. No tools. No computers. Just his hands and his mind. Then he gets home and the man he sees as his father, the man whose shoulder he cried on at his parent’s funeral, the man he who looked up to and loved, reaches into his chest and tries to kill him. Then he almost dies from heavy metal poisoning and THEN to top it all off, he flies a nuke into space. Let’s hear it again for Tony’s “self destructive issues’ shall we.
“His company would be nothing without her.”
Nothing could be further from the truth. Nothing. Tony Stark was left a company by his father that was worth millions. He took that company (at the age of twenty-one, a scant few years after the death of both his parents left him an orphan, barely out of his teens) and made it profitable to the tune of billions. That sprawling Malibu mansion? Tony designed, built and paid for it. All those cars? Tony paid for. The office complexes you see in the movie? Tony. Not Pepper. All of this was done years before she even entered the picture as his PA. He loses everything in 616 and rebuilds. Tony does, not Pepper. Tony is the intelligence, the resource and the driving force behind both Stark Industries and Stark Resilient. Pepper may ‘run’ his company, but every design, every decision, every plan goes over Tony’s desk. Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Pepper may schedule meetings for him but it is Tony that goes in there and owns the room. Tony was born for this, groomed for this. Tony is the one who learned to navigate the corporate world and all it’s sharks at a very young age. Learned it, breathed it and lived it until the language of business is his native tongue. It is in his blood.
Tony loves Pepper but he can and will survive without her. Don’t underestimate him. It takes more than a suit of armor to be Iron Man. It takes courage, intelligence, commitment and brute strength. No matter what you take from him, Tony will always come back. Toss him to the curb and he will get back up and beat the curb down. Help is always appreciated but he will do it alone if he has to. His company. His tech. His life. Pepper is his CEO not the savior of his world. He has been trodden down over and over, from the abuse he suffered at his father’s hand, through Stane’s own abuse and betrayal. Through kidnappings and beatings, Through stolen tech and the destruction of his family, his life and his company and it is Tony alone who has pulled it all back together.
So I’ve seen this post a few times now, and while initially I was fine to just leave it be and accept it as someone expressing their opinion, after having seen it now for the fourth time, it’s really starting to bother me; especially since there has been no rebuttal and the general consensus seems to be to accept the argument as it stands.
While I agree with the sentiment that Tony is NOT nothing without Pepper (because the idea that he is not a person unto himself is ridiculous and the anon message you received was completely baseless), the fact that this entire argument seems to have been bridled down to: their relationship is toxic and the blame for this toxicity lies heavily if not solely on Pepper Potts is deeply troubling and factually incorrect - as if the birth and the nature of their relationship was somehow orchestrated/manipulated by her and her alone.
What has to be appreciated is the fact that it takes the consent of BOTH parties to get into a relationship, ergo BOTH persons should be aware of exactly what it is they are entering into.
When Tony first kissed Pepper on that rooftop, he would have been well aware of what he would consider as his personal limitations, before pursuing a romantic relationship with her.
At the time, he would have made this CHOICE, his own, understanding that in order to sustain this relationship, compromises would have to be made. Because that’s how adult relationships work. Through compromise. Also important to note, Pepper did not coerce him into a relationship.
Now, onto the important aspect of why issues later arose in this relationship, where I should explicitly state, that entire blame should not be dumped onto Pepper Potts. No rational person, particularly one that is not super powered, should be expected to be absolutely okay with their significant other putting their lives constantly at risk. No one.
Pepper had to watch her then-boss, her friend, be held and tortured, not knowing if he would ever make it out alive, she had to watch her now-partner carry a nuke into space, at that time, likely of the idea that he would surely die. Then in Iron Man 3, she witnesses him go down hill, creating more and more suits, not sleeping, not confiding in her as to what was going on, before getting attacked in her sleep by one of his creations, without any real explanation.
Pepper is only human. She reacted the same as any person would. You talk about how she walked out on Tony when he was having a ptsd episode (which in fact was a nightmare), when I can argue the same, that she walked away after having been scared for her life. So are you saying that the importance of Tony’s experience in that particular situation outweighed hers? On what merit? Because her ‘man was in pain’????
When Tony finally draws the courage in IM3 to talk to her about his fears, her reaction ISN’T to turn away from him, but to sympathise. She then proceeds to stand by him the. entire. time. Despite Tony threatening terrorists, despite the Malibu mansion bombing, despite what Aldrich Killian did to her (because he held a grudge against Tony), despite Extremis, despite almost dying. She stands by Tony’s bedside while he undergoes his surgery because, “You’re all I have too, you know.“
If Tony, at any point in their relationship, had qualms with what Pepper was supposedly ‘making him give up’, then he was well within his rights to end the relationship then and there. Fact is, he didn’t. Because he himself, realised that relationships need work, it’s give and take. He couldn’t expect to remain reclusive/unresponsive every time she would request that he open up to her - re: Iron Man 2 plane scene + entirety of Iron Man 3.
So he does what he believes is compromise for him: he blows up his suits. Once again, a decision he made of his own accord, his own free will. Pepper did not at any point, force him to do this.
Then Ultron happens. And they go on a ‘break’. Understandably. Tony had essentially gone back on his compromise and Pepper rightfully so, would need space, to re-evaluate their relationship. A fact which Tony takes responsibility for.
No body doubts Tony’s ‘courage, intelligence, commitment and brute strength,’ but the fact still remains, that throughout the entirety of Civil War, he is miserable and Pepper weighs heavily on his mind, because as he so clearly declared in Iron Man 3, she is the ‘one thing I can’t live without.’
Once again - his words, his choice, his actions.
As for the anon’s claim of Tony’s company being nothing without Pepper, they have to clearly be trolling because that entire statement is without substance. Though it is important to accept that it was once again, Tony’s choice, to make Pepper CEO (again, she did not force his hand). Because he trusts her, undeniably, without question, obviously above anyone else. He knows that she is responsible, reliable and most certainly capable of overseeing S.I. That decision was not on a whim, and if you give credit to his genius, then you know he thought long and hard about it. Sure Tony Stark turned S.I. into what it is today, but who would ensure that as his successor, S.I. would not be run into the ground?
Yes Tony Stark is Iron Man, yes he is a genius, yes he has suffered much in his 46 years of life but not everyone in his life should be expected to conform to him. That’s not how reality works. The world does not change to accommodate you. You have to understand your limitations and be willing to compromise, otherwise it can end up being a very lonely life.
Also, I really didn’t want to go here, but I have to say, that this seems very rich coming from anyone who would support stony (yes that includes in any universe, not just the mcu) when for one, they have never been in a romantic relationship, and secondly would rather go to war with each other (in almost every universe) than be willing to compromise. Talk about the very definition of toxic. But seeing as I have very much to say about this non-existent relationship, I will leave that for another day.
Pepper Potts deserves many good things in her life. Criticism for a supposed failed relationship with Tony Stark where she DID NOT in fact, ‘bitch and moan at him until he makes me his first priority’, is most certainly not something she would ever deserve.
While it may seem like Tony Stark needs protection from the world, what say we focus on protecting the relationships he, himself considers very important to him. Instead of shooting holes into and tearing down the ironfam, why not nurture it and cherish it in a time when it feels like everybody else has let down terribly the man we all care about as fans.
#one of my friend’s texted me about this post so I came online just to reblog Juliet’s response#thank the gods for her because existing in this fandom is going to drive me to the point of insanity#I cannot believe this argument is still going around that pepper is to blame for any issues in the pepperony relationship#how abhorrent is this narrative??? like Juliet said it takes 2 people to sustain a relationship#not for one person to completely change how they feel to suit the other#it’s as if pepper isn’t allowed to have genuine concerns lest it take away from tony being iron man like lmao wtf????#when this relationship took off iron man was still new so how was pepper to know that tony would continue to risk his life#something she was supposed to accept without compromise???#if tony would have talked to her about any issues he had then she would have been aware of what was going on with him#you can’t enter a relationship and expect the other person to constantly accomodate for you#I understand the wilful need to constantly defend tony against nay sayers but when you reach into the realms of excusing all his actions#especially by pitting him against genuinely good people like pepper potts then you and I are going to have serious issues#because then you end up being no different from cap stans that do the same thing with barnes and tony#Also coming from stony fans this is the most hilarious thing because tony will NEVER care for rogers in even remotely the same way (via @tinmantonystark)
#I can’t believe I had to read op’s post with my own two eyes in 2016#wtf is wrong with the people just going all with this thinking it’s even remotely a good critique of pepper and her relationship with tony#??????#the fact that op fell for the bait of pitting pepper against tony is incredible#and all the stony blogs going along with it because they don’t like her getting in between their non existent ship#stop trying to tear down the actual relationships tony has#otherwise you’re going to reduce him to living out the rest of his days all alone#I know y'all like to complain about every single thing and live in your sea of depression#but maybe like chill for one second and enjoy the positive aspects of tony stark’s life good god (via @confused-em0)
#o.m.G#what is wrong with this fandom#are any of y'all ever satisfied with anything?????#like I’m genuinely curious#falling for an anon bait to pit pepper against tony??? seriously???#I wouldn’t even care about this post if it weren’t for the number of notes and the type of blogs reblogging this#like popular stony blogs#I mean really???#I expected better from you people#to openly support this unfounded wank towards pepper is deplorable#and you claim to support tony yet you would stand by and let others treat people tony stark really cares for like an inconvenience#wank for ts (via @teamtonysstank)
the amount of willful blindness in op’s post is mind blowing. when will the marvel fandom realise that not all fault lies with the woman in a relationship; blame can also lie with their faves.
Original Poster here:
I, like you, were just going to let this pass by until I read the tags. If you want to call me out on something by all means call away but don’t hide it in the tags. You are not at all ‘genuinely curious’, if you were, you would have contacted me and asked rather than ranting in the tags. This post was made a year after the IM3 movie came out. So, in January of 2014. That was over two years ago. So the argument isn’t ‘still going around’ This post lay buried (and I do mean buried) in my blog until someone rooted through it (and it must have taken some time) and picked up on it a day or two ago..
I assure you, I am not at all ‘willfully blind’ and I do fully realize that not all fault lies with woman in a relationship. nor was this post made to address that. That, is an agenda you chose to see for yourself. This is a post about Tony Stark. It is an opinion, an opinion that was written after seeing IM3 when the amount of ire directed toward this character from the Pepper fans was as high and ugly as the flaming between the Stark fans and the Bucky or Cap fans is today. You are taking substance out of context.,
Finally, should you ever be ‘curious’ about one of my posts in the future, please be courteous enough to come to me directly rather than assuming you know either me, my mind or my viewpoints in a matter that occurred two years in the past. You will find that I am more than willing to debate any Stark meta you choose.
*epic smackdown of love*
I for one am glad these douchnozzles decided to ressurect this posts because otherwise I could never had read your brilliant articulation of just why MCU Tony/Pepper is one big nope for me.
And for people who still ship it in SLR: Look, I love Pepper, but the character I love existed mostly in IM1 and Avengers 1, and if I wrote her close to how she appears in Im2 and 3, I’d be being burned for shitting on a great female character.